There is growing concern about the rule of law as scores of legal challenges over President Trump's executive orders and budget cuts already approved by Congress make their way through the federal legal system.
The Conversation spoke with state Senate Judiciary Chair Karl Rhoads about a series of forums he is kicking off at the end of the month. U.S. Rep. Ed Case will also be in attendance.
Interview highlights
On the rule of law briefing
KARL RHOADS: Congressman Case has agreed to come in and talk to us about the rule of law at the federal level. Every day, there's something where either the administration would appear to have broken the law somehow, or they're really pushing the envelope. And so what we want to do is get his perspective on what's happening in Washington and how it affects Hawaiʻi. Some people view this as, "Well, this is all this theoretical stuff that's happening in D.C.; it doesn't really affect us." Well, I don't think that's true. And I think that Congressman Case, he's on the Appropriations Committee, he'll be able to spell out on the money side how any illegalities that are occurring up there affect Hawaiʻi specifically.
On Hawaiʻi joining other states in lawsuits about the dismantling of federal programs
RHOADS: It's a difficult situation for us, largely because of the uncertainty. And what you've just described is a situation where we just don't really know what's going to happen, so the Supreme Court is the one that gets to decide in the end if they want to take a case, and how they're going to decide on it. They're famously not necessarily right, but they're the last appeal. So whatever they say goes. How all these cases turn out? I have no idea. And in some cases, I wouldn't argue that the administration is doing anything illegal, necessarily, until they've been told by a court that they are. The part that worries me is if the court says, "Hey, you can't do that," and then they go ahead and do it anyway.
On democracy during the Trump administration
RHOADS: If the leader's word is the final say on something and not what the statute says or what the constitution says, then you're not in a democracy anymore at that point. And the Trump administration has been pushing the envelope to the extent that they can, and that's a lot, because the president of the United States has a lot of power at this point. They've even got a federal judge, a circuit court, appeals court judge that's up for nomination, who has in the past said, basically what you just said, is they can rule that way if they want to, but we're just going to ignore them. That is dangerous territory if you want to live in a democracy. Maybe there are some people who don't want to live in a democracy anymore, but I'm certainly not one of them.
On changes within the news landscape
RHOADS: There's just so many things that as somebody, I'm 62, for most of my life, there were things that you could count on. You could count on the news to basically tell the truth. You could count on National Public Radio to do good reporting. You could count on ABC and NBC and those guys to take their job seriously. And now with Trump having twisted the arms of ABC and CBS to the extent they have, and with the funding for National Public Radio and PBS apparently gone, which, of course, is something they've wanted to do for years and years. So it should come as no surprise that they are trying to do this, but the fact that they actually succeeded this time, there's a lot of good news sources, reliable news sources, that are either compromised or just being put under a lot of pressure.
For more information on the July 31 morning briefing, click here.
This story aired on The Conversation on July 21, 2025. The Conversation airs weekdays at 11 a.m. Hannah Kaʻiulani Coburn adapted this interview for the web.
