A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Now, for those who closely follow legal affairs, this week has kind of been like a roller coaster ride. President Trump has been fighting with four major law firms, and on Monday, the Justice Department said it would abandon appeals in those cases. But less than a day later, the DOJ reversed course, told the court never mind. NPR's Carrie Johnson has been following the drama, and she's here to tell us more about it. So, Carrie, why is the Trump administration targeting these firms in the first place?
CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: President Trump got really angry at several big law firms. He slapped executive orders on firms that hired people who once investigated him at WilmerHale and Jenner & Block. The president also went after firms that worked for Democrats or clients he didn't like at the Perkins Coie and Susman Godfrey firms. His executive orders tried to ban these lawyers from entering federal buildings or winning federal contracts, and these law firms fought back. They sued. They hired some of the best attorneys in the country to represent them, including three former solicitors general. Those lawyers represent the administration before the Supreme Court.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. Now, how do the courts evaluate these cases?
JOHNSON: Lower court judges all sided with the law firms, not the Trump White House, and these cases were not close. Judges said these orders were wildly unconstitutional. One judge said they sent a chill up her spine. The Justice Department appealed those rulings. It was set to file court papers on Friday. Instead, on Monday night, DOJ backed away from the appeals, and then on Tuesday morning, it filed a new motion with the court asking to go ahead. So I'm watching to see what the court does next.
MARTÍNEZ: So yeah, it sounds like a whirlwind 24 hours inside the Justice Department.
JOHNSON: Lots of questions so far, but not a lot of answers. I'm told the DOJ reached out to law firms over the weekend to signal it would pull the plug on these appeals. That was the plan, apparently, for several days. But then yesterday mornings (ph), the firms got word the administration changed its mind. It's not clear if President Trump objected after a number of media outlets reported the victory by the law firms or if there might've been some miscommunication between DOJ and the White House. Either way, this is odd and embarrassing - seems like a political move and not a legal one. As one lawyer said on social media, DOJ must be such a fun place to work these days.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter) So, Carrie, what is the broader issue at stake here?
JOHNSON: There are big issues at stake. This legal system depends on attorneys to bring cases, and if people can't find a lawyer, their rights are at risk. Those executive orders from the White House really scared off a lot of firms from taking cases on immigration and other pro bono causes. Nine big law firms settled with the White House last year rather than face these kinds of harsh orders. Those settlements actually look a little different now after all the judges to consider the issue sided with the firms that sued. Vanita Gupta was a Justice Department official under Presidents Obama and Biden. She says the firms that challenged the orders are on track to win. And as for the firms that settled, Gupta says...
VANITA GUPTA: This episode is going to go down in history as really demonstrating the difference between institutions that had the courage to uphold the Constitution and fight the bullying and then actually prevailed and those that did not and gained nothing.
JOHNSON: Vanita Gupta says she hopes other institutions under pressure from the White House, like media organizations and universities, will take some heart and hope from this legal fight involving the law firms, even if it's not quite over yet.
MARTÍNEZ: That's NPR's Carrie Johnson. Carrie, thanks.
JOHNSON: Happy to do it.
(SOUNDBITE OF ERIK FRIEDLANDER'S "NIGHT WHITE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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