SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
It's day 39 of the shutdown. The Senate has been in a rare Saturday session today, but so far, there's no clear path to reopening the government. Republicans have called a Democratic proposal of a one-year extension of healthcare tax credits a, quote, "nonstarter." Meanwhile, impacts are being felt across the country from kitchens and grocery stores to airports.
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UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: Passengers may get onboard here at gate 40.
PFEIFFER: Earlier this week, like many others, I got caught in the chaos of air traffic disruptions. My flight from Boston to D.C. was delayed four times, finally leaving the next day 10 1/2 hours late. Once I finally arrived at Washington National Airport, I talked with other passengers about their travel experiences just as the FAA started cutting back service at major airports nationwide. Erin Oganesian lives in Dallas but flies to D.C. frequently.
ERIN OGANESIAN: Being someone that travels a decent amount for work, and my husband travels a lot for work, and we have two small kids, it's a little nerve-wracking because we don't have a lot of support at home. So if one of us gets stuck, that's, you know, obviously not great.
PFEIFFER: Sandie Armstrong was waiting for a flight to Savannah, Georgia, and she said airport log jams may force Congress to move, although her friend Suzanne Pattee wasn't so sure.
SANDIE ARMSTRONG: It might get more people's attention who actually could do something about it, which would be nice. And then maybe they come to the table.
SUZANNE PATTEE: I want to just express that the people in the country are being affected in many ways, and that doesn't seem to be the priority for either party.
PFEIFFER: As the shutdown drags on into its sixth week, how are Democrats responding to the growing fallout? Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar joins me now. Senator, welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Sacha. Thanks for having me on this important day.
PFEIFFER: The last person we heard from who made the comment that many Americans are being affected by this shutdown in many ways, but it doesn't seem like a priority for either party to end the shutdown - what do you make of that characterization?
KLOBUCHAR: Democrats in the Senate have been here week after week through the weekends, trying to get this done and trying to get Donald Trump to the table. And sadly, while Americans are getting their flights delayed, they're having trouble getting home, the House Republicans, for seven weeks, have been on an extended vacation at home, and we believe when you look at these past budget impasses and shutdowns, the president has to play a role, especially in this case when they run all three branches of government.
So we are taking on the most immediate problem, which is the Affordable Care Act plans. And so what we would like to see change now is that we continue the tax credits that help people to afford their premiums. And these are in place. All they need to do is be extended, and the Democrats - from liberal to conservative Democrats - have suggested, let's just do a year. And during that time, we will have a bipartisan commission to work on ideas for reform that the Republicans have suggested that would have to take place because the tax credits will expire at the end of the year for the next enrollment period. But we think that is about as reasonable as it can get.
PFEIFFER: In response to that proposal, the Republicans are saying, nope, first open the government, then we'll negotiate on tax credits. That's where things stand?
KLOBUCHAR: They have been saying this forever, but the bottom line is they've refused to even meet with us. They talk about federal workers not being paid. We want to pay those workers. But they won't call the bill up, and the House won't come back, so we can't vote on it.
PFEIFFER: But in the meantime, we have SNAP benefits stopped. That wasn't enough to make both sides find a way to break the log jam. Now we have those prospect of terrible flight congestion - business travelers, leisure travelers going into Thanksgiving. Do you feel like as those travel woes inevitably ratchet up, is that enough to finally get both sides to figure out how to solve this?
KLOBUCHAR: The president has refused to come to the table, so we are waiting. We believe that at some point he will have to.
PFEIFFER: At what point would that be?
KLOBUCHAR: He will have to negotiate.
PFEIFFER: What point would that be?
KLOBUCHAR: You will have to ask him. He has to be accountable for coming to help people with their health care premiums. We just had an election on Tuesday night, and that issue, as well as other costs emerged as the No. 1 issue for the people of this country. And people voted Democratic in states like Mississippi, statewide, nonfederal offices in Georgia that never have been won by Democrats in 20 years because of electricity rates in that state.
PFEIFFER: Right. So the affordability issue is the big domestic issue, and Tuesday was a good day for the Democrats. It appears that many people are upset about cost of many, many things. So that was good for the Democrats. On the other hand, they're going to have to continue to navigate with hot-button social issues. That has been a big issue as well. How do you think they find the balance between staying focused on affordability and deciding how to deal with pushback that Democrats are too woke, that criticism that has been very effective for Republicans?
KLOBUCHAR: I think one example is how we have stayed united and focused on this affordability issue when it comes to health care. And we have done that from the most liberal members of our party to the most conservative. And we have done that in every state in the country.
PFEIFFER: A New York City question for you - the mayor-elect, Zohran Mamdani, has said he's going to tax the ultrawealthy. And we know that because there are so many legal ways for very wealthy people to avoid paying taxes, that the wealth gap is likely to keep getting wider. Is taxing the ultrawealthy something that Democrats can get on board with?
KLOBUCHAR: We have been really concerned about what the Republicans have done in Washington when it comes to the tax breaks for the wealthiest. Half of the money in the big beautiful betrayal of a bill - 2 trillion of it went either to big companies or to the major, major wealthy people, whether they're multimillionaires or billionaires. That's what we have made as our major issue this summer, so I'm not surprised that in other races, local races across the country, this is also an issue. But part of it is because the tax system has been so rigged against the middle class for so long.
PFEIFFER: Another big-picture shutdown question - Democrats blame Republicans, Republicans blame Democrats, but many Americans feel just an overall disgust with their elected officials and the U.S. government regardless of party. To what degree do you think we're beyond the point of return on that, or what can be done to restore people's faith in the political process?
KLOBUCHAR: I always believe that you have to find common ground where you can. I believe that courage isn't just standing by yourself. Courage is whether or not you're willing to stand next to someone you don't always agree with for the betterment of this country.
PFEIFFER: But do you think the American public thinks that's even possible anymore, that there's enough common ground in elected officials?
KLOBUCHAR: I think they see it in some of their local officials. I always tell my local mayors they are on the front line of trust right now because people have lost trust in a lot of what's going on on the national level. I'm well aware of that. And so I think the way you do this is you find that common ground on an individual basis.
PFEIFFER: Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you for talking with us.
KLOBUCHAR: It was great to be on. Thank you.
PFEIFFER: As the Senate was in session today, President Trump was active on his Truth Social platform. He's urging Senate Republicans to stop Affordable Care Act subsidies so that Americans can, in his words, purchase their own, much better healthcare.
Stay with NPR on the radio and online as we continue to cover the debate over health care insurance subsidies and bring you the latest on the government shutdown. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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