The rule of law is a stone we have been turning over and over in these troubled times. Earlier this year, we had a conversation with former UH Law School Dean Avi Soifer.
Last week, we talked with Senate Judiciary Chair Karl Rhoads about a series of forums he is launching. The first will be held this Thursday and will focus on the rule of law.
This morning, we featured a conversation we had with former Gov. David Ige and Randy Iwase, a former senator and former chair of the Public Utilities Commission.
The two teamed up with former state Attorney General David Louie and Honolulu insurance executive Robin Campaniano to write an op-ed piece that recently ran in the Honolulu Star-Advertiser.
Iwase and Ige felt compelled to put pen to paper and write down what they had been feeling and thinking about the headlines of late.
Interview highlights
On what prompted them to speak out
DAVID IGE: It's because of the times that we're in. I think everybody assumes that the rule of law applies and that no one is above the law. And we've come to expect certain social norms about how law enforcement works, how government works. There is this presumed innocence unless proven, but this administration is just very different in how they're behaving and how they're treating the law. First of all, the law applies to everyone, and everyone needs to obey the law. But this administration is behaving very differently, because they do believe that they're above the law. And many, many norms that we come to expect living in America is really being ignored. The things that we would expect our government to do, they're not doing anymore. And I think it was just important to let people know that there is a permit that our country was founded on, and in many instances, it's being ignored.
RANDY IWASE: It's just a repetition of egregious acts and conduct by this administration. The Star-Advertiser put out an editorial. It's called “Reform gratuitous ICE crackdown.” You watch this group who act in a manner that is unfamiliar to us. Police officers cannot conduct themselves that way. You cannot go to a house with [a] mask on and not identify yourself. You cannot pull them out of the house. ... There were Filipino teachers who are here, put them outside, and not let them tell you or prove to you that they are American citizens. That's the immigration stuff. There are others, birthright citizenship. I'm 78 years old. I've never questioned that; this administration does. The ACLU put out a document from January to April, 100 days of Donald Trump, and listed all of the conduct, like birthright, like DEI, like attacking the universities and schools to force them to some kind of compliance with their vision of what education is, dismantling the Department of Education. These things are very, very concerning to me. And it's not just philosophical or partisan differences, it's a fundamental understanding of what this Constitution and Declaration of Independence are about, and living by it.
On cases making their way through the legal system
IGE: This administration is different because every single one in his Cabinet and all of the leadership in government now will do what he says, period, regardless of what they believe the law says, and they're willing to fight it out in court. And sometimes it's too late. The legal process can take months, years for that to be reconciled, and in the meantime, the people of this country, the people of Hawaiʻi will be suffering, and it seems like the court has yielded and been willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt, even, as Randy said, for something as simple and clear in the Constitution of birthright citizenship. I don't know how anyone could have an alternative reading of what the Constitution plainly says: Anyone born in America is a U.S. citizen, period. There's no ambiguity. The fact that this lawsuit went through appeals courts, up to the Supreme Court and back, and they are looking at technicalities rather than the basic question. The basic question is, what does the Constitution say, and what does it mean? And it seems to be pretty clear to me, but the Trump administration says something different, and the courts at this point has been willing to say, ‘OK, maybe we need to revisit’. And that really does affect all of us, many, many, many in Hawaiʻi trace themselves back to an immigrant.
On impacts felt from the Trump administration
IGE: It's really making people aware. You know, sometimes we're in Hawaiʻi and we don't see the impacts. ... And sometimes we think, ʻOh, you know what we read about or see on social media is not happening in Hawaiʻi, but it really is.' And I think everyone needs to understand that the government is different now, and they are willing to sacrifice the rights and privileges that we've all assumed growing up in America. I mean, citizenship is the basic foundation, and now just imagine every single child born after that executive order, their citizenship status is questioned.
IWASE: There's an old saying, a broken clock is right twice a day. Yes, there's fraud. Yes, the borders were loose. Yes, we have to get rid of illegal criminal elements that the Trump administration was talking about. No one disagrees with that. That's being right on the clock, the broken clock, but it's the execution. And so to deal with immigration, you go to the houses of seven Filipino teachers and their families on Maui, and you pull them outside, you send out a quota of immigrants who have to be deported. … When was the last time you heard of a rapist, a murderer, a heavy drug dealer in America, [an] illegal immigrant being deported? You've heard of pregnant women, you've heard of children. Okay, let's talk about education. Yeah, maybe the money is not going the way it should go. But do you dismantle? … Do you dismantle the Department of Education? If there's so-called waste in employees in the government, why are you firing over 100,000? Where's your justification for that? He's going after the Fed chair. Now he's backing off. That's the second clock being right in a day. Maybe he's coming to a conclusion, 'I can't do that.' But until he's stopped, until this administration is stopped, until his acolytes stop, this country is going downhill. We are ignoring the Constitution. We are ignoring the spirit of the Declaration of Independence and being right twice a day on a 24-hour day, that's not good.
This story aired on The Conversation on July 28, 2025. The Conversation airs weekdays at 11 a.m. Hannah Kaʻiulani Coburn adapted this interview for the web.
